113. Ask the Coaches with Jill Kaufman

Apr 1

NOTE: Following transcript is not edited.
WTTOS 113 - Jill Kaufman
[00:00:00] [00:01:00] Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the podcast. I am thrilled to have a guest with me today. Another coach. I have Jill Kaufman with me. Hi, Jill. Thanks for coming on. Hi, Megs. Thanks for having me. I am so excited we are doubling down on the coach brain for you all today. So let me tell you a little bit about Jill and then I'm gonna let her expand and tell you even more.
[00:01:26] Jill is a licensed therapist, a divorce coach, a divorce mediator, and a co-parenting expert. And after going through her own difficult divorce, she made it her life's mission to help others not have it so tough. Yee-haw. Yes, her online course and transformative group coaching program called Thriving Through Divorce help parents navigate the overwhelming process of divorce with less stress, more confidence, and a greater sense of peace.
[00:01:58] Tell us a little bit [00:02:00] about how you got into helping parents navigating divorce. Absolutely. So well, it's funny. I don't really want to go too far back, but when my first son was born, he was a . you know, a spirited child. And so
[00:02:15] I took this training to teach parenting classes. So for years I was teaching parenting classes about how to raise kids , how to deal with spirited kids and how to discipline and increase self esteem. And so parenting has always been a passion of mine. And if I didn't have that I would have really struggled with my oldest.
[00:02:35] And then I became a therapist and then I went through my own divorce. And so once I went through my own divorce, made all the terrible mistakes, there wasn't really divorce coaches much at that time. So I hired an attorney and, you know, my, we were adversaries and it was a mess and tons of money wasted.
[00:02:56] And so I was like, this, there has to be a better [00:03:00] way. And when I realized that, you know, I could help people not do what I did, I wrote a book and I I have an online course and I have a group coaching program and I really want to help as many people as possible. And I still get people where like, they've already spent 20, 000 on their attorney and have nothing done.
[00:03:21] And I'm like, I missed you, you know, like I, I could have gotten you before that. So, you know, it is really a passion of mine to try to get people before they make those big mistakes. Yeah. Love it. I mean, I love talking to everyone who is really invested in transforming how we think about divorce and offering some new pathways through it.
[00:03:46] I hope that our vision or our expectations around divorce really start shifting so that it isn't our first gut instinct to just jump [00:04:00] to adversarial lawyers or litigious lawyers as, as many folks use that term as well, and instead that there's a much more collaborative approach and I love that you're a mediator as well,
[00:04:13] so you know that there are things that we have to work out. It probably helps to have a professional to guide you through this process, but it doesn't have to come with huge financial expenses or with . additional emotional expenses. Exactly. And even high conflict people can get through mediation.
[00:04:33] I mean, 95%, I'm sure you know, of, of cases are settled out of court. So, you know, most people do settle out of court and it's just a matter of, educating people in terms of what their options are. So good. All right. So here's my idea for today. I pitched this to Jill. I am often in a Facebook group called Co Parenting Struggles where parents [00:05:00] post anonymously whatever their co parenting challenges are that are going on in And I go in there and I offer some coaching and sometimes folks take it, sometimes they don't, it's all good.
[00:05:12] But I thought, wouldn't it be fun if I brought three of the posts to a podcast and two coaches took a look at them and kind of gave our different ideas. Maybe we'll have some things that are similar and maybe we'll have very different approaches. I want to give you all my listeners a sense of there's a variety of different ways to approach things and different coaches might come at it from different angles.
[00:05:39] Let's see what comes up. All right. Okay, so I'm going to read each one. And then Jill, I'll give you a chance to respond, share some of your ideas. And then I'll offer mine as well. The first one is from a parent who's got a little son who's three years old and she writes, "My son is three years old and still not potty trained [00:06:00] yet.
[00:06:01] He definitely shows signs of readiness and I've been trying so hard on my end to get him to go. Every time I get somewhere with it he goes to his dad's and comes back and we're back at square one. I've talked to his dad multiple times about him asking if he's potty training, asking if he has a training potty, if you've seen like one of those cute little training potties they have now And if he's been working with my son, but he never gives me a clear answer, which pisses me off because I know that means he's not.
[00:06:32] I've told him tips and tricks to do on his end that I've been doing and that he needs to be taken to the toilet regularly, like every 30 minutes to an hour. We do a 2 2 3 schedule. I'm getting so frustrated to the point where I just want to tell him to forget the schedule for a couple weeks so I can potty train him if he's not going to get on the same page.
[00:06:52] To me, this is something that can't be put off like dad does with most other things and it won't just work out on [00:07:00] its own. Our son can't stay in diapers forever and we won't make any progress if I'm the one working with him." Is that a juicy one or what Jill? A lot in there. There's a lot. So I, first of all, understand why she's so frustrated.
[00:07:18] Like, obviously that is really frustrated. And I can't tell you how many clients have expressed frustration over things that they're doing for the betterment of their children that their co parent And you know, in potty training, you think it's a very important thing, right? Like you should be on the same page, of course.
[00:07:37] But what I tell every parent, I'm sure you have the same advice, is you cannot control what happens at the other parent's house. You just, no matter how many times you tell them, no matter how many emails you have, No matter how many co parenting counselors you talk to with them or therapists, you can't make them do the right thing.
[00:07:57] And the sooner that the people [00:08:00] understand that they have to just accept that they're not going to be able to control what goes on over there. And I've had so many different examples of this, like older kids who, you know, the, the parent doesn't remind them to do the homework, you know, like important things.
[00:08:17] But once you accept. The fact that you cannot control that it frees you from being frustrated and tense and angry, and it opens up a tremendous amount of possibilities. So what you do is number one, you know, none of my kids, Potty train before three and a half, Yes, like boys are more difficult than girls in terms of potty training. And so at three I wouldn't 100 percent worry But if it's still going on in three and a half, maybe you bring them to the doctor, you talk to the doctor about it, make sure it's not a physical issue. Cause there are some physical issues, I guess that can get in the way of potty training.
[00:08:57] But really for the next six [00:09:00] months, I would just do it at your house. Remind your child as much as possible, say, you know, when you go to daddy's house, you can do that too and leave it at that. And then the, I almost guarantee that your son will be potty trained by three and a half, but you know, it's really not, not another choice really.
[00:09:20] I, I remember somebody telling me , you know, there's very few kids, that get to kindergarten and aren't potty trained. And then there's clear reasons why they, you know, haven't been able to do it. Right. And it's totally fine. There's, they're just special cases.
[00:09:38] Everybody else gets there. . When I read this post, , one of the first things that came up for me was I got really curious about why does she want him potty trained like right now? Is it just because it's more convenient, like it feels easier, like I don't have to be changing diapers? Is it a financial piece, like I'm tired of buying diapers [00:10:00] and that's what's going on?
[00:10:01] Or is there maybe some logistical piece? Sometimes kids can't like move up to the next room at a daycare until they're potty trained. Maybe that's part of it, right? So I would be really curious just to ask her, okay, what else is going on? Like, why is it now? I love everything that you said as well.
[00:10:21] It's not clear from this post whether she has any other kids. So what I learned with my two, right, is that we talk about potty training as this thing that's like one and done. Like, okay, once they're potty trained, then it's like, oh, thank goodness it's all over. When in fact, It's, it's a process.
[00:10:44] There are very few kids that are like, okay, and I am completely done and I never have another accident. And I never, you know, need to do anything else. Often it's stop and start, right? You get a long stretch and then there's like a [00:11:00] regression, like maybe there's something else developmental that comes up.
[00:11:03] And so, potty training gets a back burner. So just knowing that it's really normal, like your child, if they're doing a couple days of good work, you know, developing this habit and then not, that's really normal, for other families, that might show up with, well, they do fine when they're at home, but when they go to grandma's house to spend a night, They don't do it there and then they come back and it and they seem like they've lost the habit or they do it fine at home when we practice over the weekend, but then they go to daycare and daycare doesn't follow the same things.
[00:11:44] And so then we have to start again. So I like to think of it too, as I think of it too, as This is a habit that you are helping them learn as much as like older kids, , okay, we're going to practice learning our multiplication tables and or we're going to learn [00:12:00] how to ride a bike and we are going to learn it and we're going to practice it a lot and then there's going to be days that we don't practice it and we forget it a little bit and then we practice it some more and it will eventually click.
[00:12:13] Right, but it doesn't have to be this perfect stretch necessarily. The other thing that came up to me was the difference between, I'm going to use the word dictate, like dictating, you need to do this too to the other co-parent versus I want to share with you what I'm doing so that you know, like what's working at my house.
[00:12:40] So that you can try it if you want to try it. And I think that it, , if I'm potty training over here and I say, you know what we do? Is right when we get home from daycare, we go right in and we sit down and I read him a story. So he sits there long enough and he's like entertained long enough till his [00:13:00] body notices.
[00:13:00] Oh, I can pee, and giving that kind of like specific description, specific it's not really instructions, but example of what works for us can be super helpful versus saying you need to put him on the potty every 30 minutes. Because maybe dad's over there saying he's having fun,
[00:13:22] I'm connecting with him. We're doing something special together. I don't want to interrupt it and, and have this struggle with him to sit on the potty, there might be reasons why dad doesn't want to do it. At this moment, and similarly, like, I love that she pointed out.
[00:13:39] I don't know if he has a potty. And my first thought was, Well, could the potty travel with the sun? That's a great idea. Like, could, could this go back and forth? Maybe, you know, maybe there's, there's something that needs to be talked about, about that too. And then the last thing that I just wanted to point out [00:14:00] is that it sounds like you have a great schedule right now for a three year old.
[00:14:06] Like doing a two, two, three kind of schedule where The child is is not really more than two or three nights away from each parent at a three year old's age is really good for attachment . We, like that a lot. So I would not be tempted to say, oh, scrap it for two weeks and not see dad in order to get potty training secured.
[00:14:34] That's, that's not a high enough bar for me. To want to really mess up the schedule. I don't know if you want to add anything on yeah. Well, something you said about like, why was she worried about this? I think a lot of parents are just worried about their kids and you know, there's anxiety there and if He's not getting potty trained now, like what's gonna happen?
[00:14:58] Like, we're never gonna get this [00:15:00] done. And I think that's so normal for people to be anxious, but like, you know, when you're divorced and you only have control over certain things, you do have to let go. And it starts at this age, you know, when you're teenagers. You have teenagers, there's a whole bunch of different problems that you have to worry about.
[00:15:20] And like, you know, so it's good to get used to not being, you know, realizing you can't control everything and that most kids are, are, are, Really okay. Even if they have totally different styles between the two parents and enjoy the time off because I tell everybody that like when you have time away from your kids, like married couples should have 50 percent custody of their kids because they would be so much happier, you know, like I think in the beginning people get so, you know, worried and miss their kids so much.
[00:15:58] And then once you [00:16:00] find your life, you can really enjoy that time. And then maybe that anxiety and that worry can decrease and you can just be like, this is all I can do. You know, I can't do anything else. Yes. I love, I love the idea. I want to like suggest that to my married friends of like, you two should really try 50 50.
[00:16:21] I think that's really good. Well, I mean them together. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Together. I totally know what you mean, right? Because the idea is like, you actually have some time off. Like that's what, that's what we're talking about is like, what if there were days and times when you knew that that was your time off from parenting?
[00:16:40] Right. Exactly. I think, yeah, it'd be awesome. Let's try number two here. So the question is, how many of y'all are social in co parenting with an ex at social events for the kids? Are there boundaries in place? What kind? Like, do you all sit together at soccer [00:17:00] games? Good question. Yeah. Good question.
[00:17:03] Yeah. I mean, it just brings up the image. I mean, you can see. Okay. You've both parked in the parking lot and you're walking to the soccer, field. . So I am always thinking about what the impact is on the kids, right? And if the kids feel that they can't sit together, that is a negative impact on the kids.
[00:17:27] You know, like that's really hard for kids when they know that the parent's relationship is so not good that they can't sit together. So what I would say is you don't have to sit together, but you should be very friendly with each other in front of the kids, in front of other parents, and really, you know, Try to get along as good as possible.
[00:17:48] If you can sit together. Great. I think that does make it better for children if you can. But if you have other friends there and you're not sitting together, you don't have to sit together. [00:18:00] You know, as long as the kids see that you guys can get along and you can talk and you can be relaxed about it because, the research shows that the children of divorced parents who have parents who have a good relationship can turn out.
[00:18:19] Okay. They actually have the same chance of turning out. Okay. than kids of of intact parents who have good relationships. So it doesn't matter if the kid's from a divorced parent. Parents or not. It really matters on. The relationship between the parents. That's why I tell people don't stay in a bad marriage for your children because it's negatively impacts your children.
[00:18:44] And I know that's hard for people because, you know, especially when you're going through divorce, there's a lot of conflict, but hopefully as time goes on, you can really I want to tell one quick thing about what happened to me. So I did had a high conflict divorce. We did not get [00:19:00] along for a while after we got divorced.
[00:19:02] And then for his 50th birthday, I made him a photo book from the kids and each of them wrote a letter to him and they gave it to him. And when they gave it to him, he cried. They said he was so emotional and loved that. And from that point on, our Our relationship changed and it became really good. And we now have an amazing relationship.
[00:19:24] We spent lots of time together for the kids. My son graduated from college. We spent the whole weekend together with him and his girlfriend and me and my husband. And, you know, it's such a load off your shoulders when you can get to the point where you do have a good relationship. So I encourage people to do whatever you can to get there.
[00:19:45] Yeah, and I think that that brings up just a point too that however your co-parenting relationship is in this moment doesn't have to be what it's going to be like forever. And I definitely have [00:20:00] felt the same way that at different points through our divorce process and post divorce there was still a lot of tension.
[00:20:08] We, we always seemed like we were able to be okay with the kids but we didn't want to be very close. We were not sitting together at the soccer games, And it can evolve and it can evolve as different things in your life evolve as, as we're able to process the divorce and process things like we give ourselves time and it can, it can change.
[00:20:35] , I love what you said about being able to be friendly. I mean, I think, you know, respectful. I always use like professional almost, you know, in, in that term of like a colleague. Yeah. A colleague, like, I mean, you're coworkers, right?
[00:20:50] When the question mentioned boundaries, and I don't think of it so much as boundaries, but I think that there can be a [00:21:00] general agreement that the on duty parent at that event, say the soccer game, is the one who's responsible for the kids during that time. But the off duty parent has the right to greet the kids when they arrive, you know, cheer, cheer for them during the, the game.
[00:21:21] and take a minute or two at the end of the game, give them a hug, congratulate them on what they did, you know, say, okay, we'll look forward to seeing you, like they have, like having that connection time, it's not like, okay, now I'm going to take them for 20 minutes and go catch up on everything.
[00:21:38] It's just, I want to have that connection. So I don't think of that as a boundary, but maybe there needs to be a little communication or conversation about, like, this is what I think it looks like. And I think coming back to , what is the bigger picture? When I'm in my co-parenting mind, so I'm not in my spouse [00:22:00] mind anymore. I'm, not thinking about them as my ex, but if I put it on as, okay, they are my co-parent What do I really want? Well, I want my kids to have a, Healthy, loving relationship with their other parent because that's what is going to be best for my kids. So what does that then look like at the soccer game?
[00:22:23] How do I bring that here? That's awesome. I love that. All right, moving on to our last one here. So this question comes from a dad. How can I improve my co parenting relationship with my son's mom? I have asked her several times what I can do to help improve our co parenting. She refuses to respond to me about it.
[00:22:47] What are your thoughts, Jill? Oh, so that's, that's the whole thing about you can't make the other person do anything, right? If they don't want to [00:23:00] respond, you can't make them respond, and you can't make them care. What I tell people is that You know, if someone's really not willing to have a conversation with you about it, I mean, you can always try to talk to them on the phone or face to face and see what they say, but if they're really not willing to, you can send an email.
[00:23:18] You have to make sure it's friendly. You have to make sure it's not telling them what to do, but telling them that, you know, this is what you would love and what the, what are their thoughts and really encouraging. Collaboration between the two of you and saying that you really want to get the relationship improved.
[00:23:39] But after that, you got to kind of say, okay, it's not going to happen. The other option is co parenting counseling, which I do for people in New Jersey. And I think. And there's also co parenting coaching. People do that too. And I think that's a really good option if you can get the other person to go.
[00:23:57] But that's the big question. You might not be able to get them to [00:24:00] go. They have to pay for it. You know, they have to be willing to take the time. And if they're not, you know, I have so many Couples who will come to me for co parenting counseling, but one is really not interested, you know, so there's not much you can do with that situation.
[00:24:17] And so then you have to do something, they call it parallel parenting, but it's really just, you know, doing what you can as a parent for the good of your child and accepting that, that the other parents going to do their thing. And, you know, I always tell people that each parent brings positives. to the relationship.
[00:24:39] They may not be the same positives as what you have, but that your child is getting some positives from that parent. And be grateful that those are different than yours, if that's the case, and that your, your child's getting that different thing that you can't give them. So there's a lot to look on the [00:25:00] bright side, instead of looking on the dark side.
[00:25:02] The negative that they're not cooperating, you know, oh, so good. So good. One of the first things that came to mind for me was. It didn't feel like a very specific question. Like he wrote, how can I improve my co parenting relationship with my son's mom? Okay. What does that mean to you? Right? Like, that was my question.
[00:25:25] Like, what do you actually want it to look like? And Have you made a specific request to her? So if we were to drill this down, because I often have clients come in and like, I just need it to be better. And I'm like, okay, like what does that actually look like? Well, if only he would reply to my texts,
[00:25:49] within like 24 hours or 48 hours. Oh, okay. Have you asked him to do that? Well, no, but he should just know. Right. That kind of [00:26:00] thing. And, you know, maybe it's something like that here. Like, maybe the thing that's really niggling at you is that you send out an email or a request, you know, a text or whatever.
[00:26:13] And, There's no response back. So you want to have a way to either get a response or be able to move ahead with your decision making that you're trying to do. So let's , make that much more concrete. yeah, I mean, the, there may be a reason why the other person Doesn't want to co parent and that might be from history. Like maybe you're the one who left the marriage or there was some, you know, hurt that they're not over with. It's usually an emotional thing, you know, if people can't co parent and so they just maybe aren't able to move on the way you've moved on.
[00:26:53] And so it's not necessarily that they're being difficult. It, it might be just a [00:27:00] self preservation or emotional thing for some people. That's a super good point, super good point. The other thing that I, that I was thinking of was, is what you're trying to get from the other parent something that you could actually get another way?
[00:27:17] And the example that comes up because I've helped multiple different parents do this is they'll say something like, well, she or he won't forward me the baseball schedule or she or he won't tell me when the, when the school teacher says to send in supplies to make gingerbread houses. And so my.
[00:27:43] My coaching on that is, okay, what is it going to take for you to get on the email list? Can you, call the baseball coach? and ask them to put you on the email list. Can you call the school and say, I want to be added to the email list. Can you make an [00:28:00] appointment to see the teacher, introduce yourself and, say, I'd really like to be able to volunteer and help out.
[00:28:06] if this is not been your area of responsibility, when you were married, . It makes sense that There's kind of some old patterns that are still here and it's your time to learn how to do it now. Sometimes what we're doing is we're kind of still stuck in some of those old communication patterns.
[00:28:29] And there may be some resentment on one side that I shouldn't have to do this anymore. We're not married, right? But, but the other parent hasn't actually learned how to Take care of it themselves. Yeah, that happens a lot. Actually, I think, and and that's a great suggestion. You just got to get the information yourself.
[00:28:48] You can't count. It's those old roles that, you know, people think that it's going to continue and sometimes it does, but sometimes it doesn't. There's so much new [00:29:00] learning. And I think just circling back to the first question and you mentioning, you know, we have anxiety, we have worry when our kids are away from us now,
[00:29:11] perhaps we've never been away from them for so many nights. Like, this is the first time in our life that we've been so separated. There's grief, there's grief that comes up. And oftentimes we don't label it as grief. We label it as frustration or anger or resentment, or sadness, but we don't say, oh, this is grief.
[00:29:29] Like, this is not how I thought my life was going to go. And in the same way, there's kind of a little bit of grief on like, oh, it used to be that this information was just fed to me, , that I always was kept in the loop about when the baseball games were. And there's a little bit of grief.
[00:29:46] Well, yeah, this is another. way the old life is, is falling away and I'm learning new things. And all right. Yeah. I mean, grief is huge. And if you don't process that grief, it [00:30:00] stays with you longer. So, you know, that's what, that's where you're going to get to the point where you can let go and acceptance.
[00:30:08] So grief is denial bargaining. Anger, sadness, and then eventually acceptance. And if you don't get out all of those feelings by journaling therapy, you know, support groups, whatever it is, it's going to sit there and it's going to come out with frustration with your ex. Yeah. So yeah, that's so, it's such a great point that you brought up.
[00:30:31] Yeah. Oh, Jill, this is so fun. Woohoo. Okay. I love, I love doubling down on the coaching. There's so many good things that come up. This is super fun. Thank you so much for doing this with me. Thank you so much. It was really fun for me. I love doing this. Yeah. Awesome. Will you share with my audience about your course and your group coaching program and the resources that you have on your website that they might be able to go grab?
[00:30:57] Absolutely. So I have a free eight [00:31:00] guidelines for separated and divorcing parents and it's on my website, divorcecoachjill. com. And I also have a free Facebook group. I think there's over 6, 000 people in it now. It's big. And it's called separation and divorce support community. And then my online course and my book are called I'm getting divorced now what, and it really just kind of helps you with.
[00:31:23] The process and how to emotionally and practically get through the process and same with my group coaching program. The group coaching program I feel is, is really special because it, it puts people together who are going through the same thing and it helps in the healing process to hear what that you're not alone, that other people are dealing with the same things.
[00:31:45] And it's just my favorite thing because I wish I had it when I was going through it. And it really helps with the healing process. So cool. All right. I will put all of Jill's links in our show notes You can find them there [00:32:00] and thank you again Jill for being on today I really appreciate you sharing all your wisdom all your knowledge all your experience with our audience.
[00:32:07] Thank you so much I really loved it. All right, y'all. That's what we have. We'll talk to you next week. Take care