120: Collaborative vs. Traditional Litigious Divorce with Cindy Wysocki
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(Unedited Transcript)
[00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome back to the podcast. I am excited today to have a guest on to talk about what we think of as the traditional way to navigate a divorce and what some of our new options are, especially here in Washington state. Though I always mentioned to folks that everything that we're doing in [00:01:00] Washington might be available in your state as well, and it might just be called something a little bit different.
[00:01:05] Meg Gluckman: So take what you learn here and do some Google searching and you can find out what your options are in your state. So I am very pleased today to invite Cindy Wysocki on. Hi, Cindy. Thanks for coming on. Hi Meg, I am happy to be here with you today. So awesome. So Cindy's in Washington as well. She's a little south of where I am.
[00:01:28] Meg Gluckman: And she is a collaborative family law and estate planning attorney who helps families plan for peace and stay out of court. And I love her website. I'll definitely link to it in the show notes, but the word peace is there in so many places and I don't think people associate peace and divorce. So I love that you include it so much, Cindy.
[00:01:53] Meg Gluckman: Well,
[00:01:53] Cindy Wysocki: thank you. It is certainly central to what I do. And my experience in helping [00:02:00] families through divorces is that those who have a peaceful process also end up with. A situation that they can live with moving forward and they don't have to keep revisiting the same issues. So for me, creating a peaceful way to dissolve a marriage or handle a family law matter is actually critical.
[00:02:22] Cindy Wysocki: For families and ensuring their success after the family law matter is over.
[00:02:27] Meg Gluckman: I love that. Will you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and helping families?
[00:02:34] Cindy Wysocki: Sure. I have been practicing law. This is my 19th year of practicing law. Most of what I've done has revolved around families.
[00:02:44] Cindy Wysocki: Right after I graduated from law school, I spent about three years as a public defender. And even when I was a public defender, I did family law. Contempt of court was what I did for a lot of that. And then after I left the public defenders, [00:03:00] I opened my own practice. And My clients, they've always been families, so I do estate planning, which is wills, trust, powers of attorney, and I also do family law, which is divorces, parenting plans, child supports, things like that.
[00:03:18] Meg Gluckman: And when most families come to you to navigate through divorce, what are they thinking that the process is going to look like? Yeah.
[00:03:27] Cindy Wysocki: I think a lot of people assume that they are going to dash into court, there's going to be a huge fight, the judge is going to tell them what to do, the judge is going to find justice for their family.
[00:03:38] Cindy Wysocki: I think that's the way people start out, oftentimes.
[00:03:42] Meg Gluckman: And what's your actual experience? Is that what happens for most folks? No, no, no, no,
[00:03:47] Cindy Wysocki: no. What I try to tell people is, first of all, the judge is not an expert in your family. What the judge really wants you to do is to try to figure out a way to work this [00:04:00] out in a way that works for your family.
[00:04:02] Cindy Wysocki: Your family is special and unique. And while the judge is, I find that they're, they are very welcoming to our citizens.. They understand that they are public servants and they're ready to serve the public. However, their preference Take the time to try to work these things out themselves. What I tell families is if you go into court and have that judge decide your life for you, because it really is your life.
[00:04:29] Cindy Wysocki: It's your money, it's your kids, it's, it's the most important things in your life are what are at stake. So if you go in there and you have the judge decide, one, the judge is super busy. You're going to have, you're going to be one of, Who knows how many cases that judge is dealing with to the judge is going to be a little bit irritated.
[00:04:49] Cindy Wysocki: The judge doesn't like to see you come in and be arguing with your spouse and looking to the judge to, a lot of times clients come in and they want the judge to punish their [00:05:00] spouse and they're sorely disappointed because the judges don't usually do that. What the judges do is they look at both of the spouses and they say, You're arguing, and this is what we do for people like you.
[00:05:13] Cindy Wysocki: We put this order in place. And the problem with that is, people like you, that's a huge generalization. It's not special and customized to those individuals who are standing before the judge. When evidence is presented to the judge, we have to comport with the rules of evidence. The judge isn't going to have all of the information.
[00:05:34] Cindy Wysocki: Those litigants are going to have a lot more information than the judge. So what I tell families who come to me and they think that that's the way to resolve their divorce, I say I don't recommend that. There are ways where you can have more control over the process. resolve your issues in a way that are really going to serve your family over the long run.
[00:05:56] Cindy Wysocki: And you may have to make some compromises to do that. You usually will [00:06:00] have to, but there are supportive ways where we can help you gather information and help you As the expert in your family come to resolutions that actually work for your own unique family. So I encourage families to look elsewhere.
[00:06:18] Cindy Wysocki: Don't look to the courts to solve your problem. Look to other ways because there are other better ways available.
[00:06:25] Meg Gluckman: Yeah. And you mentioned , a client wanting to come in and, and have the judge punish the other parent. And I see that where clients want to, be proven right, or, that one party is good and one party is bad, right?
[00:06:42] Meg Gluckman: One parent is the good parent, one parent is the bad parent, and kind of have some outside validation that their perspective, their struggle has been real, and You know, they deserve more [00:07:00] support or they deserve whatever X, Y, and Z. And it seems to me that that's, that's a really normal place to be. Like emotionally a really normal place to be that it's it's almost just part of the grieving process of of ending this relationship making this transition that we we feel out of control.
[00:07:24] Meg Gluckman: We feel emotionally like this is out of control. This is happening to us. But what you're saying is Even though we have all those big feelings and even we have all these thoughts about the other person, it still doesn't mean we should go to court to figure all of this out. let's have space to process all of that stuff.
[00:07:45] Meg Gluckman: Let's have space to get support on all those big feelings and issues, but let's still hold ownership or control over what gets decided.
[00:07:58] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, yes. And [00:08:00] I think what you're saying is exactly right. And I think that processing is best done privately. It's not something that should be brought into a public courtroom, have somebody in.
[00:08:14] Cindy Wysocki: Just pour out all of their heart and soul and the intimate financial and personal details of their life into a public court record and yet that is the court process. That's what's happened. It's all this stuff comes out into the public court record. And rather than feeling validated, people often feel embarrassed, they feel shamed, they feel the judge was mean to them that the feelings that come out by trying to use the court process to process all those emotions, they don't tend to be what the clients are looking for.
[00:08:53] Meg Gluckman: Yeah. I know we've talked to you and I have talked about this before about whether it's possible to win [00:09:00] in court. So tell me your thoughts on that. Can you win a divorce case in court?
[00:09:06] Cindy Wysocki: I have very, very strong feelings on this one. Absolutely not there. You cannot win a divorce. Case and it doesn't matter if you get everything you want in a particular motion.
[00:09:18] Cindy Wysocki: That doesn't mean that you've won Because if the other person feels just as strongly that they should have won, but you won, they're gonna keep fighting that and There I've seen cases that have been in constant litigation Since 2014, I think is the longest one that I have and that's when I that's when I Yeah, that, that's probably the longest one I've, I've had is since 2014.
[00:09:45] So if we can't win in court, Yes. what is the best that folks can hope for out of court? I think the
[00:09:53] Cindy Wysocki: best that, People can hope for is something that both parties are going to [00:10:00] just follow or they're going to kind of be resigned and say, Okay, I'm just gonna do this because I don't want to fight anymore.
[00:10:08] Cindy Wysocki: And that's not an optimal outcome.
[00:10:12] Meg Gluckman: And we've been talking offline about you shifting your practice. and doing less of this court battle stuff and more of kind of a different route. Do you want to tell us a little bit about like, what is this different route that you, that you're hoping more folks will take?
[00:10:33] Meg Gluckman: to go through their divorce and figure out their parenting plan and divide up assets and all of that.
[00:10:39] Cindy Wysocki: I think an avenue that's available to people that people aren't as aware of as they could be is the collaborative model. And in a collaborative model, instead of having each spouse have a lawyer who essentially fights with each other, and they have a, they're very positional, everybody has a position, and they, [00:11:00] they argue their position, and they try to win, even though you can't actually win.
[00:11:05] Cindy Wysocki: In the collaborative model, the spouses each have a lawyer, but the lawyer, lawyers are part of a professional team that work together to support the divorcing spouses so that they can make their own decisions and also so that they have all of the information they need to make their own decisions. And within this model, what I found is that when people are making information based decisions and they're working together to, to create an optimal outcome for their family, then that is an outcome that will actually stick.
[00:11:43] Cindy Wysocki: So over time, it works. Whereas in the court process, one of the things that has just become utterly exhausting for me is that talk about when, well, somebody wins something and somebody else is so mad, they're going to fight forever to try to [00:12:00] overcome that order. And within the litigation model, like I said, the judges will welcome you into their court.
[00:12:06] Cindy Wysocki: They are public servants. They are there to serve you. So they will not send your spouse away when your spouse is trying for the 15th time to overturn a particular order. So I think the, the durability of the orders or the agreement that a couple signs reaches is just critical. And within the collaborative law model, there is a high probability that when people have agency, they buy into the agreement that they themselves created based on actual information, like real transparent information that's going to stick.
[00:12:41] Cindy Wysocki: And so people actually are going to be able to walk into their new future and be hopeful. Whereas in the litigation model, Too often I just do not see that happening. I see a revolving door of litigation where somebody is trying to win a game that you simply cannot win.
[00:12:56] I'm imagining folks who have never been [00:13:00] involved in a divorce, who have never gone to court, have never done anything really legal, like have never needed legal representation before for anything, thinking that Well, this collaborative model sounds interesting, but how do two lawyers actually really work together?
[00:13:20] Meg Gluckman: Like how really aren't lawyers trained to fight against each other, to argue, to try to win the biggest piece of the pie. How can they actually work together in this collaborative model?
[00:13:34] Cindy Wysocki: Well, that, that is, that is interesting. So I always say some of my. Favorite people in the world are lawyers and some of the people I most despise are lawyers.
[00:13:43] Cindy Wysocki: So the idea that as lawyers we're trained to fight, eh, some people may see it that way, but there's, there are lawyers out there who are actually trained to collaborate, to problem solve, to create synergies. I love having an opposing [00:14:00] counsel on a case who will work together with me because what I find Is that that person will come up with ideas that I never would on my own.
[00:14:10] Cindy Wysocki: And so that is actually optimal, to have two lawyers who know what they're doing and they can put their heads together in support of a couple and we can come up with all sorts of things. to help people. So I think the idea that some lawyers trained to fight. Sure you'll find some like that that's what they believe,, But I think there's a lot don't believe that at all litigation crowd.
[00:14:36] Cindy Wysocki: There's hate litigation. We don't want to take our clients into court to fight so we're really working hard to try to be creative and to problem solve and to keep people out of court. So I think a divorcing couple, my advice for them is find a pair of lawyers, one for each of you who want to work together to help you because we do, we [00:15:00] can do that.
[00:15:00] Cindy Wysocki: That's something that, that I've done more often than not when it's available. It's not always available because if you get one of those fighters on the other side, Yeah, they won't work with you. You can't force somebody to work with you.
[00:15:12] Meg Gluckman: Yeah. Yeah. That was going to be my next question is, what if your spouse has already hired their lawyer?
[00:15:19] Cindy Wysocki: That, that yeah, that does happen. I have an anecdote. Actually, I've done this more than one time. I have had situations even within the litigation model where I have a client my client really wants to work to resolve the case. The client feels a duty, a fiduciary duty, a duty to, to care for their spouse, even though they are splitting up.
[00:15:42] Cindy Wysocki: The spouse hires a lawyer who I know is going to blow up the case. And I've, on more than one occasion, I've said to my clients could you speak to your spouse and see if maybe you could convince them to to hire a different lawyer because I've worked with this other lawyer before. [00:16:00] I know what's going to happen.
[00:16:01] Cindy Wysocki: You don't have a complicated case, but it's going to become really complicated if we continue down this route. And people, when I tell this story, they say, Oh, that's not possible that the other spouse would trust you enough. Well, yeah, it is possible because on multiple occasions, My client has been able to convince the spouse to switch attorneys to someone who I can work with and We can pretty quickly Gather the information we need sometimes we have to go to mediation to to resolve some the case But we're able to work it out
[00:16:35] Meg Gluckman: That's amazing.
[00:16:36] Meg Gluckman: That's amazing. I appreciate you sharing that because I think it's good to remind folks that even if they've spent money, like even if they've gone down the path a little ways with a lawyer, like it's always a fit issue. Is this a good fit for me? Is it a good fit for the vision that I have for my family going forward?
[00:16:55] Meg Gluckman: Because we aren't just dividing up assets. We are, [00:17:00] especially if we have kids . We are restructuring our family. And is this person going to help me really do that in a way that, that feels good going forward? And so, yeah, sometimes, sometimes there's a little money lost if you have to test the fit and then it's not a good fit and you have to find someone else, but long term that can be a really smart decision to
[00:17:23] Cindy Wysocki: move on.
[00:17:24] Cindy Wysocki: Absolutely. And in the bigger picture, it will be a cost savings. One of the cases where the opposing attorney was really difficult. I actually had another case with this opposing attorney and the costs on the case were going above 100, 000 and it shouldn't have been. So in terms of cost savings, sure, the spouse was a little ways in, but we ended up settling the case for much, much less.
[00:17:55] Cindy Wysocki: money than it would have cost had we gone through this terrible litigious process where [00:18:00] everything was hiding the ball and fighting and, and drama. Cause that stuff is really expensive.
[00:18:06] Meg Gluckman: So that's a really good point. So hiding the ball, I feel like that could be a legal, a legal term, right? But it's a really big difference between how we operate in collaborative versus in the litigious model.
[00:18:18] Meg Gluckman: So can you give an example of what hiding the ball means between the two models?
[00:18:25] Cindy Wysocki: Sure. So within the litigation model, you. are not technically allowed to hide the ball. You are supposed to disclose the assets and information that's relevant to the divorce. However, the other side has to ask for them. They have to ask for them the right way.
[00:18:43] Cindy Wysocki: And sometimes litigants will even just sit and say, well, you know, you're going to have to make the court compel me to respond to this. So that, that process is called discovery. It's interrogatories, request for production, subpoenas. It can [00:19:00] be really, really tedious and surprisingly expensive. I feel like that's the stage of the case where clients sometimes are like, really?
[00:19:09] Cindy Wysocki: It costs this much? And I always say, well, it doesn't have to, because. They could just hand the stuff over and that's what we see in the collaborative model is rather than going through this onerous process of you have to ask me the question the right way or I'm not going to give you my statements.
[00:19:25] Cindy Wysocki: You're just going to have to subpoena them. I can't get them. We have an agreement that we're going to exchange all of the information that is relevant to the divorce. And we're going to do this openly, completely and freely. And when I say freely, that is a, it has a double meaning. Free as in we don't have to pay all this money to compel this stuff out of you.
[00:19:47] Cindy Wysocki: And free as well as yes, you ask me for it. I'm going to give it to you. And so the gathering of information is so important. It's extremely important in both litigation and in [00:20:00] collaborative law. And it's really the information that should drive the settlement. So if you have a situation where it's hard to even get the information, it also makes it hard to resolve the case.
[00:20:11] Cindy Wysocki: But having that free flow of information, it's a huge cost savings and it also promotes settlement.
[00:20:17] Meg Gluckman: Mm hmm. And just for the The lay folks out there, I'll just name some of that information and you can correct me or add on, it might be information about, financial savings , investments, valuation of businesses or retirement accounts, or, extra properties or, Like those kinds of things and just having that information and, , regular income, what's, what's on your W2, that kind of stuff.
[00:20:45] Meg Gluckman: Free flowing, sharing. Of that kind of information.
[00:20:48] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, absolutely. And it's not uncommon for clients to come to me and say, I have no idea what the assets are. I have no idea how much money my spouse makes. And if [00:21:00] you're in that situation, you have the free flow of information. It's not a problem. If you're in that situation, you have someone who's trying to obscure things, then suddenly it's like detective work and it becomes very painstaking, difficult and expensive.
[00:21:14] Meg Gluckman: time consuming. I mean, that's the other thing, ? Is how long do we want to be in this process? If, we are freely sharing things, if we are coming into a room and we're working through things together with support of our attorneys and, maybe a financial neutral or a divorce coach in there to supporting the whole team, we're going to keep moving forward.
[00:21:39] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, yes, that's, that's absolutely right. And discovery, which is the process of getting this information, is definitely a reason why trial dates get continued, because we're just not getting the information. So that's definitely an advantage of the collaborative process, is to get that information [00:22:00] easily.
[00:22:00] Meg Gluckman: . Is there Any example of a situation that you would say, No, let's not even attempt with the collaborative like this is a situation we should definitely just go. Yes.
[00:22:14] Cindy Wysocki: Yes. A situation where somebody has. a significant problem, whether it's mental health, substance abuse, or domestic violence, and they have no awareness of it.
[00:22:26] Cindy Wysocki: They either deny it, they have no awareness of how it affects other people or a situation maybe where the domestic violence actually creates a danger to, you cannot be in the same space as this person because they are dangerous. So in those situations, the collaborative model is It's not going to be a good fit.
[00:22:48] Meg Gluckman: Yeah. And I just want to emphasize, that's a high bar, ? So if you are in a relationship where those issues are not at play, yes, what I'm hearing there is it's [00:23:00] worth trying collaborative,
[00:23:02] Cindy Wysocki: absolutely. And even some cases. With mental health, I've had plenty of clients, opposing parties, who have mental health issues.
[00:23:12] Cindy Wysocki: If they know they have a mental health issue and they're under the care of a doctor, that's not a problem. And even some of the domestic violence stuff, there are situations where people are self aware. They know, yes, I have this problem. I've, I've done this thing. And they start diving into why am I like this and untangling it and really addressing their own issues, that is a person who can still work in the collaborative law process.
[00:23:40] Cindy Wysocki: I mean, we're talking about someone who just has no awareness and they have a serious problem. That's not something that's going to work well in a collaborative law process.
[00:23:51] Meg Gluckman: Right. And just to stay on that for one minute more, if someone does have an awareness, and I, And I have heard many examples [00:24:00] of this, especially around substance abuse.
[00:24:02] Meg Gluckman: If someone does have an awareness, part of the collaborative process, especially specifically when you're dealing with kids and a parenting plan in there too, is to develop a plan that takes that into consideration. That there is actually an action plan. This is how we're going to keep everybody safe.
[00:24:21] Meg Gluckman: Here's the measurements. Here's what happens if somebody, you know, doesn't comply with them . So it's not that you're going through the collaborative process and just pretending that everything's taken care of. No, like we're actually going to address it, but we're going to make a plan that's Like you said at the very top, it's very specific to the people in the situations that are here in the room.
[00:24:44] Meg Gluckman: It isn't just some cookie cutter from a judge about how this should work.
[00:24:49] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, that's, that's absolutely correct. And I think another point that's really important is in the collaborative law process, people's privacy and [00:25:00] dignity can be protected in a way that it isn't going to be in the litigation process.
[00:25:06] Cindy Wysocki: If, you know, someone has a serious mental health issue. say they have bipolar disorder, you go through the litigation process and that is all over the court records. It's set in open court and it's really not fair to the person who has that condition. They don't need to have people be able to look up court records or just come to a hearing and get all this private information.
[00:25:29] Cindy Wysocki: So the collaborative law process offers a way where people can deal with serious issues and yet maintain privacy and dignity.
[00:25:39] Meg Gluckman: And just to get very specific on that, Cindy, is it because the clients can come up with their plan and then it can actually be filed as a sealed document instead of being a public record?
[00:25:52] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, yes, I've, I've definitely had cases where plans are, they're either filed as a sealed document or sometimes they're not filed. [00:26:00] Sometimes we do a thing which says confidential not to be filed except under seal and for enforcement purposes only. And I've had, I've had a number of clients, some clients with high profile jobs who have chosen that route and they, They've been able to manage the issues that way privately and without public attention coming on to that.
[00:26:25] Meg Gluckman: Yeah, that's a whole that's a whole nother group of people that we haven't even thought about and talked about. If you had a client come to you and they want to hire you, they want to try this collaborative piece, how do you tell them to explain it to the other party so that they can go out and, you know, find their collaborative representation?
[00:26:48] Cindy Wysocki: I would tell them to tell their spouse that they would like to. work cooperatively to resolve the case out of [00:27:00] court. The spouse should look for a lawyer who is collaboratively trained. And there's a number of things they could tell their spouse. They could say, again, privacy is a big thing. You can handle your Divorce in a private way customized, I, oftentimes I get clients who are from other countries who, their, their cultural backgrounds are such that I don't want them going through the court because I just feel like their cookie cutter stuff that you get through the court is just not going to serve these people well.
[00:27:33] Cindy Wysocki: So someone could say to a spouse, whether it's a cultural thing, or maybe they're just a really unique family. In that case, they might say like. Hey, you know, we, we could do this in a way that is customized to us. That's going to work for us and we can do it by staying out of court. So that would be another thing.
[00:27:54] Cindy Wysocki: Cost is, is another thing. Once you get into that court process, again, with [00:28:00] that cycle of litigation, it can just get amazingly expensive. So a spouse could say, I want to preserve our resources as much as I can. As we can, and I want to hire professionals who can support us in that and help us get information as easily as possible so that we can resolve our divorce without too much drama.
[00:28:26] Meg Gluckman: That's so awesome. I'm going to listen back to exactly everything you just said and I'm going to make a little script and I'm going to share it with you all. I'll put it in the show notes so that like, it's like the five bullets of why we should try this first. I think that's also one thing that you can add, which is like, let's try this.
[00:28:44] Meg Gluckman: First. You can always escalate things. You might end up needing different lawyers, and we can talk about why that is, but it's easier to escalate to more litigious or more court involvement [00:29:00] than to de escalate.
[00:29:02] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, absolutely. Especially once that spouse puts that embarrassing not true thing into the public court record.
[00:29:10] Cindy Wysocki: What you see in litigation, it's very hard to recover from that emotionally, psychologically. But within the collaborative law process, I totally agree, it's at least worth giving it a try. And I do want to say a couple I've had a couple of cases fall out of the collaborative law process and then come to me within the litigation context.
[00:29:33] Cindy Wysocki: And those cases have all settled. Those cases have not had to go to court. What happened was within the collaborative law process, they resolved a lot, but there's just this one thing and they could not get past it. And so finally the process had to end. When they got to the litigation attorneys, they still had that fundamental desire to resolve this.
[00:29:57] Cindy Wysocki: They just didn't know how to do it. Well, they got two new [00:30:00] attorneys, new ideas, and My cases like that who have, who've dropped out of the collaborative law process actually haven't had to use the court once it got into the litigation process because so much work had already been done and accomplished.
[00:30:15] Meg Gluckman: Yeah. I love that. I, that's just one of those points that I want to like hammer home. I want to emphasize to folks that it's not an all or nothing. I've described in other episodes, starting all the way at the kitchen table approach where you and your, your spouse are sitting across the table and you're figuring out some things.
[00:30:34] Meg Gluckman: Like you can start there and figure out a couple things, and then you can move up and get more support, , in this collaborative model, and you can figure out a whole lot more. And then if there's still one or two things that you can't figure out, then you can go on. But it sets you up to have so many more agreements that are, are really what you feel good about, what you want, that are your choice, [00:31:00] then Starting all the way at the litigious end of the scale.
[00:31:05] Cindy Wysocki: Yes, and then even if you have to enter the litigation, you already have so much more information. That's the other thing, because getting information within the litigation context can be really expensive.
[00:31:19] Meg Gluckman: Oh, so good. Oh, Cindy, we could talk about this on and on and on. I hope that if any of you who are listening are interested in learning more about collaborative or just all your options for divorce that, and you're in Washington state that you can reach out to Cindy.
[00:31:37] Meg Gluckman: Cindy, what's the best place for folks to learn about you more and your practice?
[00:31:42] Cindy Wysocki: Well, I have a website. It's www. waisakilaw. com and there's quite a bit of information on there that would probably be the best place to start.
[00:31:52] Meg Gluckman: And I know that you offer folks a, a consult call to, kind of vibe check and, and see [00:32:00] if, if you would be a good fit.
[00:32:02] Cindy Wysocki: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I, I am actually pretty particular about the clients that I work with because I want a particular type of client. I want a client who wants to resolve their divorce. They want peace. People who want to burn down the house. Probably need to go somewhere else.
[00:32:19] Meg Gluckman: And like I said, at the beginning, if you go check out her website, you'll see how much she talks about peace. Thank you so much, Cindy, for coming on and for sharing all your knowledge and wisdom and insights around the divorce process. I really, really appreciate that.
[00:32:32] Cindy Wysocki: Well, thank you, Meg. Yes. It's been totally fun to talk with you.
[00:32:38] Meg Gluckman: All right, y'all, that's what we have for you this week, and we will catch you next time. Bye now.
[00:32:43] [00:33:00]
After 19 years of working with traditional litigious (court-driven process) divorces, Washington attorney Cindy Wysocki now focuses entirely on collaborative divorce and helping families create agreements that work for their unique situations.
Listen in to hear:
the difference in costs, timeframe, and ability to customize agreements between divorce models.
your ability to use support on an as-needed basis in collaborative.
how to talk to your spouse about using or switching to collaborative.
the rare (but important) situations where a litigious process better serves a family.
Learn more about Cindy at https://www.wysockilaw.com/
